What separates the good players from the poker greats? Andy Black puts the questions to legend Doyle Brunson
During Andy Black’s recent visit to the Irish Open, he mentioned he wanted to capitalise on Doyle Brunson’s first visit to Dublin in 20 years by sitting down with him to discuss the flaws that remain in his game. Shelley Rubenstein offered to set the chat up, with one proviso: she was allowed to eavesdrop. Here’s what happened…
THE PSYCHOLOGY OF POKER
ANDY BLACK: Although I’ve made a lot of money at poker, there’s definitely something missing in me, Basically, I find I read every situation correctly about 99% of the time, but there’s something inside me which is just not responding to it.
DOYLE BRUNSON: I’ve watched you a few times and it seems that you’ve got the ability to get a whole lot of chips, which is pretty rare. The only thing I can say is, we all usually get a period in a tournament where we go card dead, and that’s when you’ve got to exercise patience. In the Irish Open I sat there for an hour and never held even the semblance of half a hand. You know, it’s embarrassing just to sit there, but I’ll do it.
I just keep throwing my hand away and throwing my hand away and then if I win a couple of pots, I get a little more aggressive. But I think you do remarkably well in these tournaments. What do you mean exactly? You get deep in the tournament?
AB: In maybe 70% or 80% of tournaments I’m in I pick up every loose chip there is. We both know you’ve got to dominate in all the periods you can dominate. I keep refining that, but my problem is that I make some tiny mistake and my mind literally just goes. Like here at the Irish Open. I got up to 45,000 very quickly and then I had A-K.
I raised, somebody called and the flop came 9-7-3. He checked, I checked. Fourth Street came rubbish. He bet, I folded, and he showed me A-4. After that my mind just went ‘psssschew’, and I played as badly as anyone you can imagine on the face of the planet.
DB: I’ve seen that happen a lot, and that’s something you just have to control. There’s an innate ability in a poker player that I think separates the great ones from the good ones. It’s something in your character where you just reach down inside yourself and rise to the occasion. There’s no magical formula. You just have to do the best you can and if you do something badly, you have to just let it roll off you and keep going. It’s about perseverance.
AB: I’ve made so many mistakes at the end of these things, or near the end.
DB: You’re probably getting into too big a hurry at the end – most people do. They think, ‘well, here it is, I’ve got to really gamble now.’ The chips are just units, it doesn’t make a difference what they’re worth. As long as you’ve got enough chips to weather a storm you just don’t have to get into that big of a hurry. Usually when you get deep in a tournament, all the soft players are gone.
Everybody wants to be aggressive, and if they’re playing very aggressively you can’t. When I run into somebody like that, I just say, ‘okay buddy, go ahead, I’ll get you in a minute.’ On the other hand, if they’re playing very cautiously and conservatively, then I move up a little bit and I start trying to be the aggressor. That’s what you’ve got to look for, how the other guys are playing.
FINE-TUNING YOUR GAME
AB: I’ve improved myself dramatically over four years and I’ve an idea of what greatness is, but I’m still not great.
DB: You’re probably better than you think. There’s not that much difference in players you know, there really isn’t.
AB: Do you have any memories of players who’ve had this little emotional meltdown aspect to them for years, and then made the shift somehow?
DB: Oh yeah, I’ve known many of those players. Chip Reese said something I’ve always remembered. He said when he’s playing his A-game, he’s not any better than the rest of the guys that are playing their A-game, ‘but my D- game is about the same as my A-game,’ and that’s where he was different. I think the mark of a great player is when things start going bad, not when they’re going good. All of us can play when we’re flopping good, playing and reading people well, but when it gets tough you’ve just got to buckle down and try to weather it, that’s just all you can do.
AB: But someone like Chip though, he probably always had that. What I’m wondering is, was there ever anybody who had those problems and shifted them at some point?
DB: Well, Phil Hellmuth is the most successful hold’em player I know and he really used to experience that. He still does a little bit, but not like he used to. I don’t know what he did to change, but he really used to get on tilt. I sometimes pretend to go on tilt and I steam for a little bit outwardly, but I stop it real quick if things don’t go the way I want. I actually play tighter when I’m losing.
AB: Because your reads are maybe not so sharp?
DB: I don’t know, it’s self-preservation, I don’t want to lose any more. People say, ‘I tend to lose 40,000 the same as 30,000, there’s no difference between the two.’ There is a difference. A dollar saved is just as good as a dollar won.
AB: I feel like I know the strategies and then some. It’s sort of more that I’m doing everything I can to try and change something which I know very few players actually change. It’s like you say, it’s the character you have.
ACHIEVING POKER GREATNESS
AB: Who do you regard as the greatest players ever?
DB: Puggy Pearson didn’t have any idea about maths, he was like an animal in the jungle, but he just had this instinct. People don’t realise what a great player Puggy was back in his day, just like Johnny Moss. Moss was real weak towards the end of his career, they didn’t think he could really play, but I think he’s the best I’ve ever played with.
AB: I’m sure you must be asked this a lot, but how are you the only player on the planet at your age who’s still playing near or at the top of his game?
DB: That’s just luck! It’s the genes, I guess. They’ve just allowed me to keep going. I don’t think I play quite as good as I used to, but everybody tells me I play as good or better. I don’t think so, but I’m close. I appreciate the fact that I can still play and hopefully I’ll be able to play for a few more years. You can tell if you stop winning, you know something is wrong. Usually when a guy gets to 50, he starts going down. I don’t know whether it’s mental acuity or lack of concentration or what.
AB: Sometimes I wonder whether it’s like you’re a boxer, and you’ve taken too many punches?
DB: That could be. I’m very fortunate in that regard. I’ve seen a lot of great players lose it. It’s sad. INSIDE POKER: You say you’re not playing as well as you used to, but how do you remain so sharp now you’re older?
DB: I read, I write a lot and I play poker a lot! I’ve played golf a lot all these years and I’ve watched sports and bet on them. It keeps your blood racing.
IP: If this was Stu Ungar sitting here today, what advice would you have for him? Not necessarily about the darker side of his problems, but there was some kind of internal war going on similar to Andy’s.
DB: Well, the demons had him. That kid had demons in him, it was a scary thing to watch. He probably had the most brilliant mind of any poker player I’ve ever seen. His mind just worked so quick. He was a lot of fun to be with away from the poker table, but boy, around gambling he was really a bad guy. It just came out of him, filthy words, insults; but away from that, he was a different person.
IP: You’ve always managed to keep your composure over the years. What’s the key to that? How are you able to do that consistently, where others unfailingly don’t?
DB: It’s just your genes, and your background. I see all these kids today, they’ve got hold of so much money so early and they don’t appreciate things. We had to play just to live, to eat, to feed our family. We had to drive 500 miles just to win a few hundred dollars. They don’t appreciate it.
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